Highway 62

Oh wait, I forgot. This is a three year old company, about to be recast as a BRAND NEW COMPANY (given the regime change and all.)

Mr Quesada continues:

Alright then, but seriously, though, what are you and your journalistic brethren going to report on? When I look back on this year, we printed hundreds of comics and launched dozens of titles, almost all of which were in our opinion meaningful. And yet, I don't recall seeing an article outside of the normal press push stuff that we do on Runaways or 1602, two books that should have screamed "Comics are alive and growing!" We want the same press we have always wanted, that which focuses people on all the good stuff we are doing and drives them to the product.

Interesting bite on the hand that feeds it there. Funny, but I seem to recall seeing press releases on just about every thing that came out from Marvel on any given month, including more interviews with Brian Michael Bendis than I could even hope to count. Not only that, but I see press releases from people like Chip Zdarsky, who’s part of a small studio doing his own book by his lonesome, and still he manages to get effective publicity out there.

Far as I can see it, the newssites out there are hungry for content all the time.

As for the assessment that “Comics are alive and growing”, of course they are, just that the perception, especially now, is that they’re not really growing over at Marvel. Brian Vaughan’s Y: The Last Man is much more engaging than Runaways (but then, I’m more than double the target age of Runaways, so I’m jaundiced by age here.) I’ve already commented on 1602, so I won’t do so again here. If you want to see that comics are growing, talk about titles like Sleeper, talk about Promethea, talk about The Goon fer cryin’ out loud. Hell, talk about New X-Men, which has simultaeously embraced and shattered the superhero genre (particular the mutant subgenre) like no mainstream book has for some time.

Mr. Quesada’s reference to “product,” however, is all you need to know. These are not stories. These are consumable, habitual periodically published product.

He also goes on to say:

We hope that our fans, retailers and reporters will recognize that the industry is not going to grow by picking at the inconsistencies, but on broadening the message that comics are our there, alive and as thrilling as ever.

When he starts telling that to people above and beyond those already reading comics, then I’ll stop picking at the inconsistencies. And if he really believes that the retailers don’t want to sell as many comics as they order every month, then he’s seriously out of touch.

I’m going to reprint the next question and answer in its entirety, here.

NRAMA: Well sure, but while you have said on occasion that comics should be subversive in nature, would you rather see Stan Lee on CNN defending Rawhide Kid to a conservative pundit, or JMS in Entertainment Weekly talking about his Amazing Spider-Man or Supreme Power stories?

JQ: Come on now, Matt, this is a loaded question. This shouldn't be a comparison of Stan on the Rawhide Kid versus JMS in Entertainment Weekly. The question really is whether Marvel can tell both entertaining stories, and deal with adult themes. And I instead ask, why does one have to exclude the other? The power of fiction, and particularly the power of Marvel is our ability to tell all kinds of stories from allegories to action.

How is the above a loaded question? Help me out. I’d say that either of the above doesn’t do anything but help elevate Marvel’s name in the public spotlight. Mr. Quesada seems to be unconcerned with “adult” stories sullying the commercial value of their more visible titles. I’m missing the reason for the defensiveness in the above position.

As for telling all kinds of stories, then how about something that’s straight genre, no superheroes? Please don’t mention Trouble in answer to this. Instead of The Incredible Hulk being turned into an espionage book, why not make an espionage book? Oh wait, that would involve not mining old Marvel characters and having to come up with something new (which to be fair, is a tough thing to do in this marketplace, but if people like Oni can do it, you’d think that someone with the resources of Marvel would be able to do it, too?)

Asked about “Comics are for kids”, Mr. Quesada says the following:

There's no question where I stand on this issue. Sure - Marvel needs more all ages titles. We have very few, less than 10% of our line can be classified that way. Not at the exclusion of anything, but just because this is good content that can help grow our business and industry. Just look at what Harry Potter has done for prose fiction. Who do you think would win a fight between Harry Potter and Spider-Man? Harry is defenseless without that little wand. I think Dan has a thing for the hat, though.

But, I thought that the 12-year old comic buyer was a myth? Oh wait, I’m sure I’m thinking of something else. The point about Harry Potter was cogent, but then it turns into a silly variation of the “ho’od win?” It might have been a joke, but you know what, kids don’t give a spotted rat’s behind about who’d win in a fight (okay, they might) but they don’t look at Spiderman and say “Spiderman could take Potter in three rounds, easy” and then pick up the book on that basis. They look at it on its merits. And if books are inaccessable and not what they want, then they put them down. Period.

Mr. Quesada continues, somewhat puzzlingly:

However, this isn't a cultural battle or an editorial statement. It's just smart publishing. We have good talent and we publish good stories for all ages.

I thought he just said that they don’t publish enough all-ages titles? Did I miss something? For the record, I think that it’s utterly essential to do both kids-oriented and adults-oriented books. DC manages to do so, month after month, and to keep their lines differentiated (mostly) so that things like Hellblazer don’t get the eyeballs of the Justice League Adventures set. Marvel Age might be a step in the right direction, but until I see the books on the stand, I’m not going to know for sure.

NRAMA: So how do you continue to knock down the perceptions that still persist that comics - Marvel comics in particular are for kids - more projects like a Rawhide Kid or temper that message with a familiar face, such as putting out Mark Millar and the Dodson's more mature-skewed Spider-Man out there?

JQ: You're killing me here. Our goals are not to effect peoples perceptions, they are to print good fiction.

Of course Marvel’s job is to affect people’s perceptions. If it isn’t doing that, then how the hell can it get to the business of expanding comics readership. It might not be Mr. Quesada’s job in particular, but it’s certainly one of Mr. Buckley’s jobs. Printing good fiction is, no doubt, important, but if you’re printing stuff that people won’t ever pick up, then you’ve got some work to do, doncha?

Mr. Buckley continues on this line:

To be quite honest. I really don't think we should be wasting so much energy on changing the perception of comics from a kids medium to an adult medium to the general public. I think a larger challenge is changing the general audience's perception of what a comic looks like and reads like - most people who saw our movies still think Stan Lee is writing the books. To be quite honest I think most of the world's perceptions would be changed if they just picked up Ultimate Spider-Man, X-Men or Runaways. Their perception would instantly be changed by the look and feel of the book. Most people have no idea how cool our product is!

There’s that word again.

I’d argue the above point. By showing people what’s going on in comics today, you’re going to change the general perception. It’s far from a waste of energy, but then I’m probably splitting hairs here.

And by the way, most people have no idea who Stan Lee is. Mr. Buckley might be addressing lapsed comics readers in the above, but most people neither know nor care who writes the comics (though putting Neil Gaiman’s name on a graphic novel might move a few, but oddly enough hasn’t put 1602’s numbers through the stratosphere as Endless Nights did. To be fair, they’re different presentations, and I should probably wait until the hardback collection of 1602 comes out, but I don’t think I’ll be wrong then. Sorry, Mr. Gaiman.)

Mr. Buckley adds:

Quite simply let's provide them with what they expect...and as soon as we get them in they will find out how many different types of great stories we, as an industry, are telling.

Tell them great stories, sure. But don’t give people what they expect out of comics. People expect BIFF BOOM POW. Give them something that they don’t expect, a lot of which is already out there, being provided by a host of publishers.

When asked about the current crop of announced books, most of which had been tried before (ie, She Hulk, Alpha Flight and the like), Mr. Quesada says:

These are just some projects that we thought we would bring back as a thank you to the old school fan. We do have a few more of these up our sleeves so stay tuned.

He also mentions that he’s not happy with the leaks coming out on the various rumor sites. Oh well. Unfortunately, without anything concrete, all I can offer is that there’s a lot of talk and no action in this arena. It’s great to have wonderful plans and the like, but until something is done with them, they’re just plans.

Hmm. I thought that JLA/Avengers was a thank you to the old-school fan. And at that, it’s really good (it’s also accessable to the newbie, as Messrs Busiek and Perez pack a lot of value on the page). But really, I thought that we needed more new readers and less thank you’s to longtime readers. But that’s just me, likely.

When asked if they’re overloading March to crowd out shelfspace (an oft-repeated claim), Mr. Quesada says the following:

It may look like we're overloading March, but that's because you haven't seen the rest of the year. We just have so much cool stuff planned that we need to spread it out. Hey it could be worse; we could have done alternate covers on all of those books.

Nice little swipe at DC there (who put out what, five alternate covers in the last year or so?) Alternate covers, much like salt, can add a little flavor to things, but when overused tend to make them inedible (not that you’re supposed to eat comics.) And hey look, more vaporware hype. Cool. I never get enough of that.

He adds:

The honest truth is that just as we have things we have to deal with as a publisher, this is one of the tough aspects of being a retailer. Every month, whether it be Marvel or some other company, they have to make the tough decisions as to how to spend their money. The way I see it, our job is to provide the retailers with the best product possible as often as possible and as consistently as possible. Should I plan to put out some schlock in order to make life easier for people around the ordering cycle? Somehow I'd like to think that retailers are happy that we're putting out so much good stuff.

I think my head just exploded. So, if I’m reading this right, retailers are to be HAPPY that Marvel is loading up their schedule with as much as they can put out and still get decent orders on? At least Mr. Quesada gets one thing right, it’s the retailers’ buck that is on the line. Not Marvel’s . They’ve already printed to order, more or less. They know that it’s not going to sit on the shelf for months and months before ending up in the dollar bin or the half-price sale. At least it won’t on their nickel.

As for printing books as often as possible, well, I guess. I mean, if they can move those books and aren’t just double dipping into their readers’ monthly budgets, then that’s fine. Consistency is good. So is ponying up when your books are late or didn’t arrive as solicited, but it took a class action lawsuit to get that to happen.

I’m not going to address the “so much good stuff” claim. I buy one Marvel book a month (well, two, but only one continuing series) and in another month, that won’t be the case. Do the math.

Mr. Buckley’s honesty wins out here, though.

And to be quite honest you would not asked one question about any of those projects if we did not group them together. We create conversation and attention for each of those projects because they were grouped together if we staggered them there would not be a peep from anyone.

There is that to be said about the whole thing, isn’t there? “We’re not flooding the market, we’re just making sure you pay attention to these reboots.”

Asked about the Marvel/Hollywood connection, in particular regarding changes to books that may or may not reflect the movies’ look and feel, Mr. Quesada says:

Our relationship with our West Coast office couldn't be better which will become evident when you see some of the talent that will be joining us next year. The truth is that we are incredibly coordinated as a company right now and even initiatives like bringing back the costumes comes with the blessing and encouragement of all levels of the company.

Well, that takes a load off my mind. I mean, I was up nights wondering how the hell they were going to get the X-Men back in spandex and not piss off the people making the movies. Wow. I can get a full night’s sleep now, since that load if off my mind.

And do I detect the heady hint of more vaporware? Ah yes, vaporware.

Mr. Buckley goes on to hint that the new talent will be all Hollywood-powered and stuff, too. Hooray. I can hardly wait.

On the coincidence of Jean Grey’s “death” in X2 and in New X-Men, Mr. Quesada says:

Basically it's a coincidence and you never know when she's going to show up again.

In other words, “when the book starts to lag or we want to relaunch X-Factor, we’re putting her on the chopping block.”

And here’s another fun exchange:

NRAMA: In that vein, especially now, with a bunch of movies out, what's the emphasis? Do you want to bring movie viewers to comics, comic readers to the movie versions, or find a middle road where both "versions" can meet?

JQ: Well, lets see there were 10 million people who bought the X2 DVD, what do you think?

DB: I love it when the creative guys can do the math! It makes my job so much easier.

Cool. 10 million copies of the X2 DVD sold to retailers (not bought, folks, since you can still see them on the shelves, hell, I nearly broke my ankle on a crate of them at Costco). That’s swell. Now how many of those people even picked up a copy of New X-Men?

That’s what I thought.

There’s some unfunny joking about who’s writing that very title after Grant Morrison ends his run. The name of Joss Whedon didn’t come up. Shocker.

There’s a whole long stretch I’m skiping. Mr. Brady sums it up neatly:

NRAMA: The names may change, but the comedy stylings continue…

On the issue of N monthly books featuring Character X, Mr. Quesada opines:

How many Spidey books are there? Batman? Superman? The bottom line is that it's only worth doing if they're telling good stories and different types of stories. Ultimately that's what will decide the future of multiple titles within certain brands. Is it a good idea, I don't know, let's find out. See this, this is me throwing, now lets see what's sticking.

So wait, you guys are throwing stuff at the walls and seeing what sticks after all? I thought there was a careful plan that you couldn’t talk about yet… The bottom line is that this many books a month featuring this character sell. That’s it. If they didn’t sell, they’d get cancelled. Do I personally like the idea of four monthly Batman books or 12 montly mutant books? No. I’d rather there be one of each worth getting on a consistent basis. But again, I’m widely regarded as a freak.

Along those lines, he continues:

Uh…yeah. Anyway, we're doing both and that will become more evident next year. However, lets take a look at FF, you do realize that there's an FF movie on the horizon. Right? Could it be that we want to plan ahead and make sure that we have a lot of FF trades in place for retailers by the time the movie is ready to come out? Is it possible? Just mmmmmmmmaybe?

Ah, they’re doing the retailers a favor by getting a lot of product out on the shelves. I forgot. “All of this stuff practically sells itself! Why if it weren’t for us, you retailers would be out of business!”

When pressed on the revival/new properties question (mostly meaningless, as 95% of what Marvel does these days are characters that other people created), Mr. Quesada follows:

I believe the market is in better fiscal state than it's ever been and again, I don't see the sin in trying different products. It's not like I'm saturating the market with the same product under an alternate wrapper am I?

Since when are four monthly Fantastic Four books trying different product? Yes, I know. The p-word again. But really, these aren’t different books. They’re all slightly different takes on prexisting books. They, in many ways, are the same product under an alternate wrapper. But again, this is Marvel’s dilemma. They’ve got all the great old characters that they can bank on, but haven’t managed to make any new ones spark yet (aside from books like Runaways, which seems to be catching on to have a life of its own.) Yes, DC does it too, but DC offers a lot of variety, and new characters/concepts, which go a long way towards offsetting their multiple Bat/Super titles.

Oh wait, he was digging DC about the whole alternate cover thing. I get it. That was pretty clever, wasn’t it.

Mr Quesada continues:

As for fiscal sense each of the products we create make fiscal sense because we would not release them if they didn't. When a title stops making fiscal sense we generally will determine a way to create a new title that will. Marvel has always been fairly consistent about that.

That sounds like a good plan. And nobody really disagrees with that. Mainstream houses need to make certain margins in their titles, or they have to move on. Money doesn’t just grow on trees, y’know. People get confused when Marvel spends money on new initiatives that are allowed to wither on the vine or worse yet, get killed off before they even happen. That wastes everyone’s time and resources, particularly the publisher’s.

There’s a bit on the whole “dead is dead” thing that is just kinda funny, but doesn’t bear repeating here.

I’m skipping ahead a bit here. Don’t worry, you didn’t miss much.

NRAMA: In that same vein, are full-on original graphic novels still a financial impossibility for Marvel?

JQ: It's not that they're not financially not possible, it's that they don't make financial sense. Also, as a creator it makes no sense to me because by placing a $30 or $40 price tag on a book you're cutting off such a large number of fans from purchasing the title that it doesn't make sense. If I was working on a 90 plus page book, which would take me months and months to do, months that my name isn't out there as a creator, why would I then want that book priced so high as to cut off the largest number of people from seeing it?

Hmm. Joe Quesada and John Byrne share an opinion. Wow. So remember, creators, when your OGN is shot down at Marvel, they’re doing you a favor. The only true format is monthlies. Those keep the dollars rolling in and more importantly, they keep your name out there on our books.

Besides, $40 for a graphic novel is an insane price. People like AiT/Planet Lar manage to give you 96 pages and more for right around twelve bucks. Marvel’s a million times bigger than then and could cut better deals with Diamond and Quebecor and all along the line. Sure, graphic novels shoehorned into the current model for monthlies is stupid, but who said that we had to stick with the current model?

Oh, wait, they do.

The rest of the interview is entertaining, but nothing that demanded comment, though it was funny to see Mr. Quesada admit that they might do alternate covers (but only if the project were “big”) after he jabbed DC about them. Irony is fun like that.

Many many thanks to Matt Brady, who did the actual interview, and to Joe Quesada and Dan Buckley, who’ve given me so very much to think about. If you read this far, you’re either a masochist, or need to get a more involving job, but thanks either way.

Okay, I’ll see all of you the first week of February.